Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by catephoenix on Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:03 am

I think there's room for both, though I do wonder whether Facebook, and particularly Twitter, are really for people with attention disorders!

unsure

I spend too much time on twitter (sorry, Ken). Now what was I doing a minute ago... Very Happy

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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by steven pirie on Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:00 am

A single tear forms in Steven's eye...

Still, never mind, eh? Laughing

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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by steven pirie on Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:05 am

Personally, I quite like it that this place is not so busy I can't keep up. It has a nice homely feel, and has hardly any third-person shennanigans at all. Even Jats seems nice and polite in his attempts at banishment. We have a higher class of troll. Laughing

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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by Jats on Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:47 pm

"...let me unexplain further then..." as Jats smiles at Steven's response for even though he has no clue wether Steven can write or not, wether his book is successful, or a flop, that wasn't the point. What Jats did know from a few clicks was that Mr Pirie had a sense of humour, Jats had seen that much "...I am not proposing you all write in third person here, god forbid no, that would drive me mad, but you could write them, and store them here, and anyways Flea, me, and the odd impersonator will supply our constant stream regardless..." as Jats wonders who of the live-writers is the copycat these days, and chuckles again at that quaint word which he rarely hears even from his little ones nowadays "...no my proposal is to write elsewhere more, not here, as you, or someone else, maybe a character from one of your books even, for I will link again to the other post http://shocktotem.nice-board.com/t4099-500000-publishing-contract-no-thanks for the two are entwined don't ya think? No, well I do. See, I think the golaposts have moved, it was touched on in the other post, as every writer knows how hard it is to get published these days, and the lucky ones remember it well, and who of you thought you would be blogging ten years ago with a mind perhaps to help get that book in you published, or two, six, or ten for the talented/lucky ones..." as Jats comes to the nub of it now "...see, essentially I am agreeing with you, Facebook and Twitter is of no help, personally I abhor both, though they serve their purpose, where the forum has far more scope as you said. Though one has to consider those 'copycats', and unlike this forum, which I wouldn't change a bit, for 'some' of the reasons Steven mentions..." Jats chuckles again re-reading the post above trying to remember to get to the rest of it later "...yet we all know forum-land is full of dangers, though there lies your readership. If you go viral on Youtube, you get noticed. Go viral on the rest of forum-land then, as a writer, not as you being you here, as the writer you. Furthermore..." Jats sips his tea gathering strength to continue his rant "...to rebuff your attempt to debunk what I am saying by the example set here is the failure as Shock Totem is what Flea and I call a 'show' thread, we have one now and again, usually writers sites, understandably so, though every post is born from a reply elsewhere, our inboxes fill up nicely thank you, the Goblins mind bogglingly so, whose readership has got to be over a hundred thousand now, so, see, you are not going to get that on Facebook or Twitter, unless your famous first that is. It's time to throw away some of those conventions again is what I am saying, who says you can't write in third person on a forum? It's not for you, fine, you don't have the time, fine, you are already published and happy, fine. Though don't mock it til you've tried it hey..." as Jats smiles benignly trying to remember that funny pop group, the Arthritic Monkeys, or something like that, who turned the music industry on its head then adds finally "...as for being a Troll, yes Flea and I get accused of that, usually by Trolls, and we can be I suppose, in return then, if they insist upon it, but that's not what we are, and certainly not here, where I think this is an outstanding site where I have yet to see the tearing apart of budding authors as I have seen on all the other 'writers' sites. All we are suggesting is some lateral thinking, how you respond to it is entirely up to your self..."á and with that Jats wipes his brow, not remembering a post so long, and apologising in advance for it, then goes back to talking about Random Stuff elsewhere, but not before one last very rare pm though, just to make sure his hunch was right




Last edited by Jats on Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:38 pm; edited 6 times in total (Reason for editing : because its not a blog and I can edit it, until I am happy with it and re-edit it on every post)

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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by steven pirie on Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:17 pm

Steven rubs his tear-stung, tired eyes. "I do wish third-person personas came in paragraphs," he says. But goblins are as goblins be, and who can know if such punctuation punctuates their goblin world?

For the record, I don't think you're really trolling, at least not full-pelt run-up trolling I've seen elsewhere. And you're right that going viral should be every writer's aspiration. But, I think writing reams of nonsense all over the web whilst in-character would possibly cause sporadic aneurysm, if not in my readers then certainly in myself. Laughing

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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by fleamailman on Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:27 pm

("...JAT is amazingly talented, you only have to see the posts he started off with to see clearly how far he has come with his own choice in everything, he is very much an author is his own right where his readership too, balloons by the month if simply because most people don't write in their posts..." mentioned the goblin who had actually been writing the below post, while JATS had posted the above one)

and with that the goblin, thanked the lannister dwarf and wondered if there was a second glass going then, saying "...why oh why do you write so well when you care to, only to offer so little on this forum in your other posts, I mean don't you ever get the feeling that someone who wrote as well as you do could build something of yourself far bigger than that hoops and hurdles of that declining bookworld, or those no one reads ego blogs that people rightly feel unequal under...", at which point the goblin explained a bit, saying "...as JATS says, forumland is the fastest reading segment, second only to the likes of facebook, going now, where most people simply don't have the time to read books, and where that clock is unlikely to turn back to bookreading any time soon, so where does leave the writer faced with the wish to write for that sense of audience, ok you might laugh at the idea of a persona, but in fact we are all personas anyway, moreover, what is the easiest way to be remembered amongst all these usernames here, take for example a name like steven pirie, I mean few are ever going to remember that name, even though his posts are very well written, but then again just imagine if he decided to become dolly the dinosaur here, I mean, how could anyone possibly forgot him like that, his books would become know across forumland..." but joking apart, both fleamailman the goblin and JATS the chameleon were old hands at this, it was panto but the trick was reader involvement rather than being read, a replyship then rather than a passive readership



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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by fleamailman on Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:04 pm

("...a second point very quickly seeing that steven pirie had touched on it..." started the goblin, feeling it was good to know in livewriting in general, saying "...the impression of the post must seem short to the eye, where most posters on forumland, well unlike here, would not read a post where paragraphs were many, or where it was over correct, so my not using paragraphs and fullstops originally stopped me from getting TL;DR posted back for my effort, it's almost like one tricks the poster into this game of correspondence now, as my posts are easier built on rapport than off my own bat)


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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by Dolly the Dinosaur on Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:08 pm

"Urm, anyone know how to crack an egg?" says Dolly, muffledly...

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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by fleamailman on Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:39 pm

"Urm, anyone know how to crack an egg?" says Dolly, muffledly...

"....MYAHAHAHA, your best post yet too..." replied the goblin now, continuing "...no, it's not gospel, where none of the livewriting rules are binding anyway, simply one sees the ideas and adapts to it or not, where for example I post pictures because it's a fantastic way to get good at illustrating, where another livewriter might not bother to, and again, I am anonymous beyond "married with kids living in geneva" where someone else might be fully open about themselves, again, the use of third person, the adaptation of a persona, the run on sentence, the misuse of ellipsis, the choice of forum/venue, etc., etc., are all ones own choice as me to myself now, where whatever works for one is right for one...", yet there seems something that each livewriter had in common, they stored their posts, the air/edit/backup part of it, that then was the journey to self that the goblin seemed to harp on about, not quite all was panto then



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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by Tall Tyrion on Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:39 pm

fleamailman wrote:and with that the goblin, thanked the lannister dwarf and wondered if there was a second glass going then, saying "...why oh why do you write so well when you care to, only to offer so little on this forum in your other posts, I mean don't you ever get the feeling that someone who wrote as well as you do could build something of yourself far bigger than that hoops and hurdles of that declining bookworld, or those no one reads ego blogs that people rightly feel unequal under...",

The dwarf turned and fixed his misshapen eye on the goblin. "It's likely that you are right in one way. The flexing of the writing muscles would have a certain advantage." He paused long enough to pour another glass of wine and pass it to the golbin. "However, I find that there are certain situations in which the style of writing needs to be adapted to fit the format and more importantly, the audience. While formality is quite satisfying to me personally, I often find the intended audience is put off by it and communication is hampered. Yeats said 'Think like a wise man, but communicate in the language of the people'. It's advice that I have tried to take to heart..." Tyrion paused, then continued "I think there are many who would question my ability to accomplish the first part, but my prowess at the second is unsurpassed."

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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by Jats on Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:06 pm

"...links to books, blogs journals please TT..." as Jats sees he is a writer suddenly, as not all the audience here takes it as read, as certainly they won't elsewhere unless its demonstrated then "...though I'm not convinced about Dolly just yet..." as Jats laughs his way to bed

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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by fleamailman on Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:37 am

"...can't say that I have ever had a decrease in communication by writing in third person..." replied the goblin, continuing "...no, and oddly enough, even within the most formal forums on forumland, once the initial battle for acceptance is over, my act for want of a better word is accepted, perhaps under the guise of writertype aka wako, where naturally I wouldn't write like this in dailylife now, only that if one maintains a loose association to a persona one is better remembered, being one point, and that one can also enjoy writing as writers do, that is, with full narration of text here...", and then the goblin smiled, remembering that one couldn't write in third person without having a persona for a least two reasons, one, that the reader then asked "yes ok, but who or what is writing this", and two, that the writer, where no persona is given, albeit that that too is still another type of persona now, would have to write "said the person that is writing this" each time, which I think everyone would agree is both long and dull and obvious...", which may well have explained why the goblin kept his association loose, leaving the reader to accept or reject the act as they pleased, but that still hadn't boiled the kettle in the kitchen now, while outside the morning was breaking out of its night's slumbers again, where once more sounds of birds and cars competed for the goblin's ears, simply the clock ticked on as always, and all was as mundane as it had ever been, somehow the scene caught upon the branches of his pen here, perhaps reality too was this folly then, certainly the goblin in his cowardice wanted exactly this, this safe same day after day dailylife that never once budges from its continuity here, yet forumland he noted, perhaps like that narration of each text he did now, actually became dailylife's narration to him, so he narrated his dailylife in posts, where that narration was never called for



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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by Bosey on Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:31 am

Having low vision, having to view everything magnified 20 times within a magnifying window, it's near impossible for me to maintain communication through Twitter and Facebook. But I can still pass comment on the mediums. Twitter, for instance, is clearly beneficial for writers on one level. It forces them to practice the art of word economy - if too much so on occasion. As for forums, you have space to actually talk about word economy ... while losing your skills at it. Smile

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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by Bosey on Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:29 am

What would Oscar Wilde say? Feel free to add your own quotable quotes. Here's what I think he'd say:

"Twitter exists so that Forums can apologize for being wordy."

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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by Jats on Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:02 am

Bosey wrote:What would Oscar Wilde say? Feel free to add your own quotable quotes. Here's what I think he'd say:

"Twitter exists so that Forums can apologize for being wordy."

"...Everything popular is wrong..." suggests Jats, hoping that is succinct enough for Bosey, then continues, ruining it "...though where would we be without all this now, as I recall someone once asking me if being on the internet had changed me, and at the time I didn't think it had, but I do now find myself in real life having 'Google pauses', whereas in writing I would go away and look it up, dolling out the facts as if I had not missed a beat, yet in conversation my factual justification usually comes out as 'er... er... I'm sure I read something about it on the internet once'. See, everyone's a genius now, thanks to the internet..."


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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by Bosey on Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:50 am

Man, you remind me of a time when I was obsessed with using commas. I would also like to say: what?

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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by Bosey on Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:35 am

Jats peeled it away slowly, every peel accurate. He looked up, mouth open, as if gravity were now worse. "Should I really?" And the trees said no.

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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by fleamailman on Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:11 am

"... a bit of a catch 22 I suppose..." replied the goblin, welcoming bosey then, explaining "...I mean if one writes that which readers don't want, well obviously they won't read it, whereas if one writes what readers want to read, well they won't remember it, nor you now...", simply, the goblin never took the reader too seriously here, thinking of that maxim "what the horse doesn't know the horse won't eat"...", hence the goblin's posts were usually bitesize and easy to digest, except when faced with odious writertypes now, for then, and only then that is, he guessed that one could clearly surpass the threshold of sanity bigtime and still be accepted as one of them, as long as it worked as writing per se, saying "...ah yes, only the utterly mad can actually write, the rest are just normal people who would never dream of tilting their pens towards the windmill of their own imagination..."


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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by Dolly the Dinosaur on Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:45 am

So, thinks Dolly, what now? She has her shiny new third person persona, and as far as she can
tell, being locked in an egg and all, no one has bought a copy of Bullying Ryan. She looks for
inspiration on the web, for all self-respecting dinosaur eggs are Internet-ready.

"Ah, Random Whatever, this looks promising." But there's no narrative, just random stuff, ranting
and ravings, possibly, awfully punctuatedů with no paragraphs, presumably to represent the 'live
writing', stream of consciousness nature of goblin thoughts, with a little picture at the endů no
doubt some nugget of gold to compensate for the lack of narrative. "And in the middle someone
says something," says Dolly, and she can just see herself posting such stuff across the entire
Internet, spamming, almost, as Mr Triceratops, down at the Dinosaur Convenience store might say.
But it's the way forward, and she can picture some dour conversation one day upon Anyoldcrap.com
forums:

Dodgy Dwarf: "Blimey, that Dolly the Dinosaur is a really clever writer."

Gordon Goblin: "Yeah, awesome, must go out and buy a novel from that British writer, urm, Steven
Price, no Seven Pinkie, or was it Stephanie Privet?"

Dodgy Dwarf: "That's the one; Bullying Ryan, or was it Diddling Duncan?"

And what Dolly can't understand, is how writing such third person nonsense is supposed to increase
the presence of Steven Pirie, unless at every opportunity Dolly is a terrible name-dropper:

"Must go to the shop," thinks Dolly, "and on the way I'll muse about how wonderful Steven Pirie is."

"Morning, Mrs Brontosaurus, how's Norman? Have you read anything by Steven Pirie lately?"

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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by fleamailman on Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:40 am

"....nah, you don't have to be dolly the dinosaur now, where in fact, it would be wise to choose the persona that you are most happy with, because it should be for life, and it gets hard to change it later without having people losing track of you across forumland here, something a bit like actors where most people know the roles they play but not their names..." mentioned the goblin adding "...besides, if one has a rare username, well one that turns up your threads when googled, together with a memorable persona that marks you out amongst those who still write like "what's up dude" without narration nor illustration, then forumland becomes your circus, where instead of trying to get people to come to your book, or blog or whatever, one takes the show to them with parts of that book or blog then, ironing out the madness as one goes along, feeding on the input, remember, simply you are nothing more than your posts here, but most writers overlook that point, so much so that to date I could often tell a writer by that links elsewhere nothing here of me then approach...", and then changing tacks slightly, the goblin then said "...anyway, think of 10.000 hits to a thread as one friutcake, where JATS, slinky bas, giggler and myself are all at least well earned fruitcakes now, where too, whenever I hit double fruitcake somewhere, I put the link up on the "doing it bloggystyle" thread on this forum, I mean can you imagine the readership of someone who has reaches fruitcake across many many forums, but in the end he or she is just like anyone else, just another poster amongst us..."


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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by fleamailman on Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:20 am

"...simple..." replied the goblin again, explaining "...bookwriting is the readers coming to you, whereas posting is you going to the readers, but the content is the same because at its base the author is just the same person expressed differently now, in that one has to cut up ones ideas into bitesized posts on threads to keep the reader reading, whereas one offers the whole hog in a book in the hope that the reader will find enough time to read it all...", in fact, the goblin never forgot that the victorians were too busy to read books, so the writer had to go to the reader here, they simply cut it all up into easy episodes in journals for them, smiling "...well then, the forum becomes just that, our pickwick papers perhaps, so do you still think I'm mad then, well I am indeed, but it's not without a certain logic behind it..."



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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by steven pirie on Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:19 am

Picture a dinosaur avatar (can't be bothered logging in and out!)

But does it really work?

All but you personas and I (Bosey came late) have stopped adding to this debate here...

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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by fleamailman on Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:00 am

"...nah, this thread will come to a natural cutoff point, like most threads do, whereas those random threads tends to go on forever if simply because one is bumping it, or answering/commenting on it..." replied the goblin, adding "...a random thread has similarities to a blog, but it fails if it actually turns into a blog then, where for example, "random stuff" is JATS's baby, mine is "the last person to post here wins" thread, follish has a "just me" thread and so on, but unlike a blog each person who posts to it, isn't replying to the central character, no, they're part of the thread, where more often they are replying to one another on it...", perhaps, one mustn't forget that if ever the thread turns into an exhibit thread, then the livewriter will go hungry, for livewriting is ones own thoughts and reflections partly/mostly based on correspondence and rapport here, exhibit threads have their purpose as JATS pointed out but they don't feed one anything, one needs others here..."


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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by Jats on Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:38 pm

Bosey wrote:Man, you remind me of a time when I was obsessed with using commas. I would also like to say: what?

Jats reappears after being far too busy with JATS and enjoying the weather "...you asked for a Wilde quote. I gave you one and you reply with 'what?'..." making Jats think he may have stumbled onto one of his troll sites by mistake for a second "...and as for the rest, seeing as you insist, welcome to my world now then..." and Jats picks Bosey up by the hair with one hand, his feet with the other, then squashes him flat before rolling him up into a ball in the palm of his hand "...see there are no rules here Bosey, you write as you like..." bouncing Bosey along now with the skill of a Harlem Globetrotter as Jats walks along idly unexplaining further "...commas can come as you please, quotes, ellipses, full stops can go where you like, make words up even, as long as it's consistent..." Jats bounces Bosey on the spot a little and then shoots him deftly into the air where a passing eagle picks him up by one claw and soars him off above the Alaskan mountains for a bit then drops him into the back seat of a passing bi-plane "...See..." Jats screams over the roar of the engine, turning round shoving his face right up to Bosey's rotundity while steering the plane with his left foot "...your readers will get used to it, after post after post, unless they are writers of course, they are the worst, constrained by their convention...well, second to trolls that is..." as Jats sends the plane into a dive straight down into a giant pelicans beak and out through its arse emerging in Regents Park as the Horse Guards passed. "...Taxi..." yells Jats, whereupon an Ice cream truck instantly appears, and Jats helps himself to a couple of Ice creams "...Nuts with that? You must have some nuts Bosey...they are delightful..." Jats murmers, taking a lick, then whispers "...you see Bosey..." who was still bouncing beside him "...the only thing that can stop you is the limits of your imagination..." and with that Jats kicks Bosey back to his own little world adding "...that was fun. Your turn then..."



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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

Post by Jats on Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:28 pm

steven pirie wrote:Picture a dinosaur avatar (can't be bothered logging in and out!)

But does it really work?

All but you personas and I (Bosey came late) have stopped adding to this debate here...

"...yes funny that..." Jats chuckles "...busy elsewhere I guess..." as Jats recalls another Wilde quote "...conversation about the weather being the last refuge of the unimaginative, or something, which I think is close, without Googling it then..." as Jats pleads an exception seeing as his office is the other side of the glass that many look jealously through each day "...or perhaps they are too busy on Facebook, or twittering then...and does it really work? Well, contrary to Mercedes view, the views speak for themselves, and amongst the displays of human nature, elsewhere too, there are continual requests to see more, a link to a blog, website, etcetera, and you could provide that on every post made by Dolly, or whomever..." as Jats nods a 'told ya' nod in Fleas direction "...and what have you got to lose? It certainly could be more fruitful than just talking about the weather..." as Jats has the last post here perhaps then now, so gets back to his next elsewhere, not before repeating how this all started "...how's that book selling then uh? Bet ya that fiver its not as many as this one..."


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Re: Has Twitter and Facebook Ruined Forums?

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